Only thing I thought took the long way around was the idea that 13-year-old girls married to some broke old man might conceivably be making a rational choice. It seems like we, as a society, have pretty much recognized that under a whole range of circumstances (including youth), people are not capable of making rational decisions. Neoclassical economics may have trouble dealing with irrational choices, but outside of economics departments, we've never had that much trouble recognizing coercion.
Also, it would surprise me if concern for the women of Utah didn't in large part cover a sentiment that might be summarized as "Oh....Icky."
Yeah, I was trying to limit myself to what was wrong with the neoclassical analysis of polygamy, to stop the "but polygamy is economically good for women" meme before it got too much momentum.
I think I am not as inherently repulsed by polygamy as some people. I mean, what's the difference in theory between polygamy and having some girls (or guys) on the side? We're not totally repulsed by playas. The ick factor only comes (strongly) into play when I see some old man marrying teenagers or other blatantly brainwashed women. As somebody else articulated their revulsion, "Tom Green wants to have sex with teenagers and have the taxpayers of the state pay for the upbringing of his children – while covering the whole operation with a smokescreen laid from the traditions of the pioneers."
My friend Frank just emailed the following response:
don't forget, mormons were the sex radicals of the 1800's. they were outlaws because of their commitment to a political (ergo economic) conviction. certainly, the LDS church's sanctioned practice of polygamy was patriarchal and explicitly sexist to the max. but the practice was also a communitarian and, one could argue, a "progressive" (loosely defined) social institution in that day and age.
that was, of course, all prior to 1890. it was thereafter repudiated in order for the territory of utah to join the union. the mormon leadership ultimately wanted into the burgeoning transcontinental market economy -- a decidedly regressive turn toward fiscal conservatism.
so, as history teaches us, progress is a relative, and thus non-normative phenomenon. so is polygamy.
yours, frank
a.k.a. sister polly andry dandy, of the new york order of the sisters of perpetual indulgence [snap]
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Best of Left Behinds
Ten Worst Americans Our group effort at coming up with the ten worst Americans of all time is our most heavily trafficked page. It's linked on many other sites as an example of "extreme leftist propaganda", but I (Solomon) am just happy to be getting the word out about number two on the list.
George Pataki, You Will Never Be President, So Stop Pataki's latest bout of pandering to the national right wing provokes AO to assess Pataki's viability as a presidential candidate. Sample: "In summary, you are dumb, uncharismatic, middlingly competent at best, not politically savvy, and somewhere between homely and plain."
Frank Gehry to Brooklyn: Drop Dead SG reviews Gehry's design for the Atlantic Yards project, concluding that "It's like some giant grey Transformer clomped its foot down on Park Slope. And imagine when in a few years all those pristine white beams get coated in soot from the neverending traffic jams that are projected as a direct result of this development (have you ever tried to drive through Flatbush or Atlantic during rush hour or on a weekend?). It'll be a Transformer's giant grey dirty foot."
Androphilia is the New Gay Didn't we learn anything from the pointless "queer" debates of the early 90s? SG gets all bitchy discussing butchness and some blogger's anti-gay gay neologism.
Why It Matters To Be Rational Part I and Part II In two excellent posts drawing on research from his day job, AO argues that the US is allocating our collective resources irrationally because of badly misjudged relative risks. "Terrorism is for the most part extremely unlikely ... Global warming, on the other hand, is 100% likely (it is already underway), and if left unchecked its damage will almost certainly dwarf September 11." Yet "the same people who believe in ghosts and ESP believe terrorists are gonna bomb their mini-mall. People cannot distinguish between real threats and fantasy."
The Most Annoying Person in New York Another of our very popular contests, this time for that person who just irks you. As AO writes, "'Most Annoying' is not the same as 'most evil' or 'worst.' We're looking for people who set your teeth on edge for no good reason, not Bruce Ratner."
The Science of Cuteness Think about a kitten staring up at you and cocking its little head as it blinks its big sleepy eyes. If you didn't just barf a little bit in your mouth, you're not trying hard enough to contradict the results of this study.
NYC Police Surveillance In this dispatch from the front lines (subsequently used by the Gotham Gazette), a Brooklyn activist discusses how years of police surveillance and harrassment almost succeeded in demoralizing her. Almost.
The War on Empiricism In a prelude to the risk posts above, AO argues that more people believe in haunted houses than in the scientific method. Somewhere in this post there must be some Dick Cheney jokes.
Why I am a Liberal, or, Napkins are a Stupid Place to Make Government Policy AO and the Congressional Budget Office force small-government conservatives to "defend low taxation on its merits: either taxes and government are evil and immoral in themselves (the idea the right-wing noise machine has been trying to cram down our throats for 25 years or so), or in utilitarian terms less government and lower taxes benefits everyone more than high taxes and more government."
Connecting the Dots: The Transit Strike and the Ratner Land Giveaway SG inventories MTA misdeeds and the public and media backlash against striking transit workers and finds himself in "a Bizarro alternate universe where no one can make the simplest connections between events."
Left Behinds Gets Spanked Our greatest honor of 2005 was a takedown in the very popular MILBlogging.com, where the man behind the milblogs (a man who SG had called "unnecessary and annoying" in a previous post) noted graciously that LB "looks like some third-grade school project written by some Marilyn Manson-looking blogger named Solomon Grundy, a childhood friend of Cindy Sheehan, and a few other contributors." And that was just in his first paragraph. But by the end of the bashing we were not just friends, we were lovers.
3 Comments:
At 12:49 AM, Antid Oto said…
I guess only the haters come out.
Only thing I thought took the long way around was the idea that 13-year-old girls married to some broke old man might conceivably be making a rational choice. It seems like we, as a society, have pretty much recognized that under a whole range of circumstances (including youth), people are not capable of making rational decisions. Neoclassical economics may have trouble dealing with irrational choices, but outside of economics departments, we've never had that much trouble recognizing coercion.
Also, it would surprise me if concern for the women of Utah didn't in large part cover a sentiment that might be summarized as "Oh....Icky."
At 2:19 AM, Solomon Grundy said…
Yeah, I was trying to limit myself to what was wrong with the neoclassical analysis of polygamy, to stop the "but polygamy is economically good for women" meme before it got too much momentum.
I think I am not as inherently repulsed by polygamy as some people. I mean, what's the difference in theory between polygamy and having some girls (or guys) on the side? We're not totally repulsed by playas. The ick factor only comes (strongly) into play when I see some old man marrying teenagers or other blatantly brainwashed women. As somebody else articulated their revulsion, "Tom Green wants to have sex with teenagers and have the taxpayers of the state pay for the upbringing of his children – while covering the whole operation with a smokescreen laid from the traditions of the pioneers."
At 3:41 PM, Solomon Grundy said…
My friend Frank just emailed the following response:
don't forget, mormons were the sex radicals of the 1800's. they were outlaws because of their commitment to a political (ergo economic) conviction. certainly, the LDS church's sanctioned practice of polygamy was patriarchal and explicitly sexist to the max. but the practice was also a communitarian and, one could argue, a "progressive" (loosely defined) social institution in that day and age.
that was, of course, all prior to 1890. it was thereafter repudiated in order for the territory of utah to join the union. the mormon leadership ultimately wanted into the burgeoning transcontinental market economy -- a decidedly regressive turn toward fiscal conservatism.
so, as history teaches us, progress is a relative, and thus non-normative phenomenon. so is polygamy.
yours,
frank
a.k.a. sister polly andry dandy, of the new york order of the sisters of perpetual indulgence [snap]
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